if reading this from a CD, please see www.gpss.co.uk/geocuk.htm - things can change :-)
Why so many "Lovelock" Geocaches ?
Updated 1400 Monday 12th November 2001
if reading this from a CD, please see www.gpss.co.uk/geocuk.htm - things can change :-)
Hi ! I originally set up this page
to answer in more detail some basic questions like,
"why has Robin and June planted so many geocaches ?",
and "what are Robin's true motives ?", which appeared
on the UK Geocaching Forum.
This page also provides the means by which people can
access the Lovelock cache information, so they may continue
to visit the caches. Hopefully, in the longer term, this page
will migrate to being a "UK Geocaching News" page, providing
less controversial and more interesting information :-)
On Monday 5th November 2001 all the Lovelock Geocaches were removed
("archived") from www.geocaching.com by Grounded Inc in USA, due to
pressure from
a group of Geocachers in the UK who regarded them as "commercial".
The caches are
still there, of course, but there is little point in publishing them
unless visits to them are logged on sites such as geocaching.com,
navicache.com and geocachingworldwide.com.
Here are the methods by which you can access the Lovelock GeoCache information:
These are two recent postings on the UK Geocaching Forum that I
thought particularly eloquent. Many Thanks to everyone else also.
Ok newbie here.
I live in Swindon and hence have to come out in favour of Robin's caches.
The first I knew of them disappearing (and this forum) was when I went to
enter details of a cache I visited today (and the subsequent e-mail from
robin). Talk about spoil the fun.
Ok, so the reason why I'm in favour. I live in Swindon and me & the kids
use it as a Sunday afternoon escape and treasure hunt. Apart from Avebury
and Gloucester, there's not many other caches available within our area.
(yes I know about Winchester!)
I know robin's made several, but so far I've only found his CD in some of
them, not all, plus I've only taken one and not even bothered to look at it
yet! I'm still happy with Autoroute 2001 & Mapsource.
All his caches we've visited have been rated as easy, yet have still taken
the kids 15-20 mins to find. The latest at Dinton Pastures didn't hold any
CD's and I deposited Elvis (a travelling Elephant) there taken from a cache
in Sherwood Forest. Is this the end of his travels?
Knocking off lots of them in one day? Then you're not exploring the area.
We took one Sunday to hit three of Robin's caches around Bracknell. (I'd
like to tell you which ones but there missing from my nearest caches now).
One was Caesars camp at the lookout which was great fun. Another was easier
being close to the carpark but still took 10 mins (in the rain) to find, but
it was on the way to another.
Please don't forget us newbies and the kids. We do need easy caches to find
and apart from the cd's in SOME of Robins caches, there are lots of other
good items (especially child orientated). An example - Dinton Pasture this
Sunday. Not one CD, but a torch, toy car etc in a very good location, both
for excellent hiding place and something to do other that geocache.
Ok end of my pleading. I vote for Robins caches to be reinstated and if
you're not allowed commercial items then these should be removed, either by
Robin or the next visitor. Surely a request to do so could be put on the
cache description.
P.S. I have nothing to do with Robin, GPSS etc.
PPSS. Yup I know the solution would be to put some caches locally and we
are already discussing this as a family.
Now I know this forum is here I'll keep an eye on it.
I strongly object to the archiving of the Lovelock caches, and request they be reinstated ASAP. I'm appalled at how arbitrary the
process has been. A small number of people hiding behind pseudonyms have objected in private and on this limited-circulation forum
and "voted" him out. It's about as democratic as Guy Fawkes & Co. "voting" to blow up parliament -- the real stakeholders were never
consulted. Were the many people who logged the Lovelock caches ever consulted? No. Did the plotters ever go to a single Lovelock
cache? No. Do most Geocachers hang out at these forums? No. Did anybody read Robin's defence at http://www.gpss.co.uk/geocuk.htm ?
It doesn't look that way. And where's the wisdom of closing the threads to stifle debate on this rather important topic? It's
insulting to the rest of us to presume there is nothing more to say on the matter.
All of this smacks of childish schoolyard bullying and petty backbiting. "If he's not punished then I'm taking my marbles and going
home" is hardly exemplary dispute resolution.
Grow up and let the caches back. Expansion of the sport means that all sorts of newcomers will be caught in the net, and not all of
them will be to the originator's ultrapure standards. People will be drawn in with all sorts of different motivations, and Robin's
self promotion is just about the least offensive I've ever come across.
Stretch your mind a bit and imagine the real threats to the sport. Offensive political or religious motivations for planting caches.
Dangerous objects in the caches. Lawsuits from stash hunters who are injured or killed by falls or bad weather. Major landowners who
refuse to have stashes on their property. There are plenty of forces out there that can diminish or destroy the sport. Why the h*ll
are we picking on someone who wants to build it up?
And why the sensitivity to Robin's business? Does his GPSS software compete with Groundspeak? Should the rest of us not be objecting
to our personal data being used to sell "targeted" banner ads for Geocaching.com? (Robin was invited to buy just such (IMHO very
offensive) ads.) Is this just a conflict of interest between rival businesses fighting over GPS consumers? I hope not.
Let him back on the pitch, bury the hatchet, shake hands, and let's get on with what we were doing before this catfight started.
Marc
First my "motives" : Yes, I do have a business interest in Geocaching
taking off in a big way Worldwide, as it is already starting to in
the USA. But this is an indirect interest: as explained on my
GEOCACHE page,
Geocaching has potential to help my GPS Software business because
it may result in the number of GPS receivers sold to rise from the
hundreds of thousands in most countries outside the USA, to millions.
Stimulation in the Worldwide consumer GPS market results in hardware
costs falling and more customers for me - I sell nothing to the
end user - only to businesses manufacturing GPS hardware or building
GPS solutions, such as those for remote tracking.
This is perfectly clear to anyone visiting www.gpss.co.uk
Quite frankly, as others have already pointed out on the UK newsgroup,
the handfull of GPSS CD in Geocaches are not going to have much effect
on how many copies of GPSS are out in the field. Over 3 million copies
went out on UK PC magazine cover CD in the mid 1990's, and a lot of
GPSS CD have been distributed by GPS makers in Taiwan. A large number
of people (in 143 countries) have already downloaded GPSS from www.gpss.co.uk
and many register it each day.
I let them use GPSS for free in return for their completing the "Quiz" registration
questionaire which gives me valuable information on the changing
Worldwide GPS marketplace. e.g. right now, 80% of people who
have reached the stage of running GPSS "for real" with a GPS
have not heard of Geocaching. This is born out by my recent
discussions with senior members of the GPS industry: Garmin have
"woken up" to Geocaching - but most of the other major players
have not - but watch this space :-)
Most of the people visiting geocaching.com are existing geocachers,
but some are new recruits - many of whom have not yet purchased a GPS
- hence my wish to support Geocaching.
Why has Robin planted so many geocaches in such a short time ?
The quick, simple answer is that I wanted to do this while there
were still leaves on the trees and sunshine, so I could include
nicer pictures on geocaching.com - see discussion of "quality"
below. These caches are designed to follow the excellent example
set by our first find of "The Queen's Oak" - and serve as a good
example to others finding their first cache after discovering
Geocaching. Is there another motive ? Yes - some of us down
south may play a small role in UK Television and other media
taking an interest in Geocaching. I do have some track record
of being lucky in this publicity activity - see the
ASONTV Page.
At least one UK Geocacher has voiced concern that so many caches
in our area will deter Geocachers living in that area to venture
further away. My quick answer on this is, "please plant more
geocaches in other areas". However, let us take a realistic view:
Only 10 months ago, in January 2001, the total number of geocaches
Worldwide was about 300 - mostly in the USA of course. At the time
of writing this, there are over 9000. My guess is that the UK will
have several thousand by the end of next year. So our small contribution
may seem a lot now, but not in the future.
But now the most important subject of all: QUALITY.
Jeremy Irish and his colleagues of Grounded Inc. in the USA
do an excellent job of keeping www.geocaching.com running.
It is a fantastic web site, but the quality of the information
on it, and the places and geocaches that it leads you to,
are completely dependent on us - those who plant the caches. Those who
find the caches also contribute "value" to the web site,
with their reports appended.
This is where I believe there is a big difference of opinion:
what constitutes a "quality" geocache. I believe the three
important aspects of quality are:
Perhaps the best defence I have - in my opinion at least - is
the geocaching.com website itself. My harshest critics in the
last few days seem to be NORTHUMBRIAN and MOSSTROOPER - I suggest
you take a browse through both their and my Cache entries,
and see who you think is making the greater contribution.
One of these is the moderator of the UK Newsgroup, I believe.
Some people will want to treck miles, along muddy paths, to
find a jar containing false teeth or a kidney stone :-) However,
we all know how difficult it can be to get our "other half"
to share our enthusiasm for a new hobby - let alone the children,
who may prefer the TV or PC indoors.
Let's have a few more "easy but interesting" caches out there - please.
NORTHUMBRIAN Geocaches:
MOSSTROOPER Geocaches:
LOVELOCK Geocaches:
There is, of course, space in the UK for ALL types of Geocache.
I'm sure the handful of 140+(?) geocaches now in the field will
be dwarfed by the numbers planted next year - and our recent contribution
of caches will be seen as a tiny "blip on the curve".
The most important thing, I would suggest, is for us to do our bit
of planting good quality caches, enjoy the sport - yes June and I will
be doing more of that now - and perhaps spend less time squabbling amongst
ourselves on the newsgroup ? :-)
I realise that this page of "defence" may do more harm than good to my
relationship with my critics, including MOSSTROOPER and
NORTHUMBRIAN, mentioned above - but I thought I owed it
to my "defenders". I'm prepared to believe that my critics
have "their heart in the right place" and hope that, with time,
they will change their opinion of me. I'd very much appreciate
direct contact, prefereably by 'phone on 01344 620775,
or email on GPSS@compuserve.com from these particular critics,
and I hope they will be happy to give me their real names
- I always prefer the direct approach.
Many Thanks for taking the time to read this page.
Robin Lovelock, Sunninghill, Saturday 13 October 2001.
(full address and contact details on
CONTACT page)
Most of the Geocaches hidden by us are very easy to find,
and are usually large tupperware boxes full of low
cost "goodies" including things like toys and books for children, batteries,
CD, torches, and a disposable camera
to take a picture of yourself - but to leave in the cache after
your walk around nearby.
We try to choose places
that will be of interest to tourists, and plant caches likely to draw more
people into buying a GPS and taking up geocaching.
- if none listed, maybe they are still archived on geocaching.com, so...
Robin's Defence by Others
from Dave Hinns
from Marc Brett
Robin's Original "Defence"
Robin's Motives
I am enthusiastic about geocaching because it has enormous scope
to popularise GPS to a much wider audience: this helps my GPS Software business.
It is also great fun :-)
Why so many caches ?
For those interested, a Press Release sent to TV networks is on the
NEWS page.
Good publicity on Geocaching will attract more people into the hobby
and hopefully result in us all having more caches to hunt.
Maybe better and cheaper GPS products will appear also.
e.g. how about those cache details appearing on your handheld GPS display ?
Quality
www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest_cache.asp?u=The+Northumbrian
www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest_cache.asp?u=Moss+Trooper
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest_cache.asp?u=Robin+Lovelock
(See above on how to access, if archived or deleted from geocaching.com)